I have doubts that [a femslash meme] would be very long-lived

[frogfriend]

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Historical RPF

[(Anonymous)]

Who are your historical faves?

Re: Historical RPF

[(Anonymous)]

Did I make this thread just so I can talk some more about Toregene Khatun/Fatima? Yes, yes I did.

To c&p from a previous comment about them: Toregene was married to a useless prince who became Great Khan, and she basically held the empire together. In fact, after his death, she consolidated power and remained as empress-- with her loyal servant Fatima by her side. Notably, Fatima and Toregene shared a tent and "intimate confidences", and Toregene named Fatima queen. Their lives ended in tragedy, but they were both pretty badass and I totally ship them.

Here's another primer, with more sources in the footnotes.

https://www.rejectedprincesses.com/princesses/toregene-khatun

I really want a fic where Fatima actually is a witch, and uses her magical powers to keep Toregene on the throne. Or where they both just manage to live happily ever after (for some value of that) in their retirement. Or anything tbh.

Re: Historical RPF

[(Anonymous)]

Please talk to me about Toregene and Fatima some more--do you ship the more tragical aspects of the relationship? I mean, even if Fatima's a witch, there's miles between, say, the Discworld witches, ye standard fairy tale witch, or like, pagan witches. Harry Potter witches?

I do have this headcanon about all my favourite historical people, in that they retired into obscurity in a shack somewhere in the countryside, where they ate cheese and had sex a lot, which isn't really realistic in that time period... or at all.

Re: Historical RPF

[(Anonymous)]

AYRT

It actually could've been semi-realistic for them, in this time period! Well, swap out the shack for a ger, anyway. Because Toregene (and Fatima) did originally retire from her royal position, and set one of her sons up on the throne. But Mongolian history after Genghis Khan is one long string of distant cousins fighting civil wars and stabbing one another in the back and basically squabbling over the ruins of an empire (let me rec The Secret History of the Mongol Queens by Jack Weatherford, if you're interested).

If I had my dream fic, I would definitely want something between fairy tale and pagan witches, but drawing more on Mongolian mythology and tradition than Western tradition. I wouldn't need historical accuracy (Book of a Thousand Days by Shannon Hale and Roads and Rivers, Wars and Songs by Damkianna are both pretty great fantasy flavored with Mongolian history) but a sense of grounding the characters in their setting would be great.

Re: Historical RPF

[(Anonymous)]

Very intriguing! Tbh, I was probably thinking along the lines of Baba Yaga, which wouldn’t fit for Fatima, in my understanding? But I will have to percolate this :D (I can never resist femslash for older couples...)

Re: Historical RPF

[(Anonymous)]

NA

I started reading The Secret History of the Mongol Queens a while ago. I didn't get very far, but that was because life got busy, not because it wasn't interesting. This definitely is encouraging me to get back to it!

I read the Rejected Princesses link, and I agree they should get to live happily ever after. Maybe either Fatima uses magical powers to keep Toregene on the throne, or they see the unfortunate direction things are going and Fatima uses magic to make everyone think they're dead so they can live happily in retirement? Or some combination of both.

Re: Historical RPF

[(Anonymous)]

Katherine Philips!

/Katherine Philips stan nonny

Re: Historical RPF

[(Anonymous)]

Tell me more about what you love about her!

Re: Historical RPF

[(Anonymous)]

ayrt

I'm blatantly outing myself to anyone who knows me IRL and possible in namespace, but it delights me that she's basically gay in the Henry Higgins model of "well, obviously relationships with the same sex are more fulfilling in every way, love (as in, heterosexual love) is far inferior to Friendship" and writes beautiful love poems to her female friends and everyone's okay with this. She's the Good One in comparison to Aphra Behn!

Re: Historical RPF

[(Anonymous)]

I still really love Virginia Woolf and Vita Sackville-West. Their letters to each other are amazing. Vita and Violet Trefusis are great too. Orlando was one of those books that really pinged for me early on, and I liked the movie a lot.

Re: Historical RPF

[(Anonymous)]

This may sound weird, because their RL connection was a man, but I really ship quite a few of the women around Charles II of England. The lusty, ambitious Barbara Villiers, the naive and romantic Catherine of Braganza, the working class actress Nell Gwyn, the not-so-pampered princess Henriette (Minette), could all combine most intriguingly. I ship Catherine/Barbara hatesex, Nell giving Catherine tips on self-pleasure and helping out, Nell being an upstart and having surprisingly fun sex with Barbara, Minette generally with ladies and a few other things.

Re: Historical RPF

[(Anonymous)]

Sei Shonagon/Murasaki Shikibu actually has some quite good fic:

https://archiveofourown.org/works/143331